John
LeKay: When did you first hear about NAFPS and why
did you join this group?
Robin: I first heard
about the NAFPS through a member of their group. It was my
first time that I had ever gone into a forum on the
internet. When I first went into the forum, it was very
foreign in the sense that there were many names of people in
research and frauds, that I had never heard of. I tried
to read through as many posts as I could to grasp what the
main focus of the group was. However, I myself had a
specific role to play when I joined the NAFPS and that was
to involve myself on the inside of a group called the CKY to
expose who and what the group was, to obtain as much
information on the individuals as possible, especially those
that held the ranks of what they called "priests, clan
mothers, and chiefs".
JL: After reading the numerous posts in the so called
"research" and in "fraud" columns, what was your initial gut
reaction, your intuition
telling you about to what you had read?
Robin: As I began to read through the posts on groups or
individuals, I saw a pattern within the group which I had
discussed
with another member, and that was; for the number of members
that were in the group, I saw only a small handful that
posted or responded. Those that posted would sometimes cut and
paste emails of outside individuals, without any
substantial proof the person existed or what they said was
truth. Most of the postings were based on mainly links
provided, which many times led to more hearsay of others.
Some links did provide, in reading, show that the the group
or individual proven evidence that the public should be wary
of. Also, I became aware that it was common practice that if
a post was made of an individual or group, it was bombarded
by several posts of accusations, hearsay, at times much
deletion and editing (and in reading what was deleted or
such that the person defending themselves did not write
things that warranted such editing nor deletion). This
reminded me of seeing a child in a school yard being ganged
up by several children. These were usually posted as
"childish behavior, insults, racial remarks" to give a few
examples that were and still are used; giving the impression to
many reading the post that the person defending themselves
are viewed as a guilty person through unfounded remarks.
When nothing more could be said, then another post would be
started on a new subject or person. I, myself, saw a small
portion of the many posts where someone from the group
actually went out and gathered facts that were of credence.
My own personal feelings on the matter was that I was
involved within a group that was damaging people that may
not have deserved
what was printed about them. I knew that the nafps was not
what it appeared and before Mr. Carroll and I had a
disagreement, I had
already made the decision to leave the group
JL: What conclusion did you draw as to what this group was
about?
Robin: My conclusion of the group as a whole is based on not my
opinion but facts. The whole system of the nafps is based
on emotions of
dysfunction, there are contradictions; much are based on "do
as I say, not as I do". The group as a whole consists
of white people that have little to no knowledge of
native people and customs, except through books,
cyberspace, and limited contact with native people.
When there has been in the group - actual tribal
members - when expressing their view
on something, in most cases have been brushed aside or
attacked. What is held sacred in the group is not that
of native culture, but moreso of themselves and their
beliefs on how native people should act or behave according
to their standards. This is not a group that base their
foundation on native culture, but that of personal beliefs
of what they have either read, or picked up small bits of
information from actual native people. The saying that some
people know enough to make them dangerous, in this case it
would rightly apply.
JL: Why did you have a disagreement with Mr. Carroll?
Robin: There had been communications between Al Carrol and
myself about the CKY, and what I was going to do. Once I
joined into the CKY group, I tried to converse with as many
people as I could to gather whatever information I could.
The CKY based their beliefs on new age of Atlantis with a
mix of Mayan, very little Cherokee and other beliefs that
were totally made up by members. As soon as I joined I was
told I would call Jerry Edwards along with other male
members "priests". I replied that if I was to follow
"traditions" then they should do the same and speak to me
only through my husband and not myself directly.
This angered Jerry Edwards but not to the degree of kicking
me out. About the third day of being a member, I had
received a phone call
stating there was a picture of me and a map of my location
on their web page. I immediately emailed them and told them
if they did not
remove it I would contact the police and FBI.
Within 2 weeks I received a letter from an attorney
representing them with unethical threats. In first reading
it, I
thought it was a joke, due
to the stationary used, the way the letter was worded unlike
all the attorneys I know. So I called the attorney and it
was not until I left
a message that I was calling the bar association then did he
return my call. In my conversation with him, he was very
vague unlike the
accusations that were stated in the letter. In the meantime
I did begin the process to file a complaint against the
attorney.
I had retained an attorney in Ky. that would take the case. I
had received a letter from Al Carroll that backed up what my
case was
based on. In the meantime, Al Carroll had posted on his site
through a cut and paste that one of the members of the CKY
was going to join the group, this person named Starr was one
that was involved in the case we were building against the
CKY and had given Edwards' attorney false information
about me.
When reading the post from Al Carroll in his group it as I
said was a cut and paste of a letter that was to appear to
be that of Starr. In his posting he said that Starr had seen
the wrongs by the Edwards and was now going to join the
nafps. This became a contradiction, and also a conflict of
interest concerning my case against the Edwards, Starr and
their attorney. When I stated to Al Carroll he was wrong for
allowing her into the group at that time, I felt he was
slapping me in the face as I stated to him. His response
which he has now
removed from the nafps board, but I have a copy of , was of
this" did you not forget that you yourself was once a
delusional and
confused woman that was a member of the CKY"? This statement
that he made was a means to validate what he was doing. And
to make it appear that I was actually a real member of the
CKY but had come to my senses and was converted into
exposing frauds.
So I posted emails between he and I showing what he was
saying was not the truth, that he was compromising my case
by changing his story of what the truth was. He deleted many
of them shortly after I posted them. In his personal emails
to me, he thought I was
wrong for being angry, that what he had posted should have
no bearing on my case( which in fact one of the strongest
points in my case were based on what Al Carroll had stated
in a letter to the bar association and the public) That I
was disrespecting him, and then continued with emails with
taunts. However he had for whatever reason changed his mind
and instead posted that I myself was nothing more than a
confused woman involved in a fraud group.
Since that time he announced that this woman "Starr" had
joined the nafps she made a intro post on July 12, 2006, but
has never made any other posts or replies in the nafps.
It was also at that time he was attacking Scarlett Kinney.
She and I had come to an understanding of each other through
mutual respect. I had read her site and in communication
understood what she was trying to accomplish and that
perhaps I could share some stories with her and some
personal insight. This is by far selling out my traditions
as stated by Al Carroll this past April in a group forum in
Tennessee.
I myself have been very busy and involved this past year
with children that have been given up by their biological
mothers and are wards of the state. My husband and I took a
newborn in last July and just recently finalized the
adoption. We are not licensed foster parents and do not
receive any kind of assistance nor state aid for what we do,
it comes from our pockets. As I stated to Al when he made
the
post that yes I was selling, but not traditions, I was
selling my personal belongings to pay for the attorney fees
in the adoption, and
if he liked to go on ebay and see what I was selling, had
sold and perhaps maybe he would buy something that would be
making a positive contribution to a child that needed a good
stable home. In the adoption process you must go through
several background checks, criminal, physical, and
psychological. My husband and I both passed and in fact it
was recommended to the judge through these background checks
that the process waive the 6 month grace period. If I was a
unstable person or a person of questionable character I
would not have been granted the adoption. That in itself
shows the untruths that Al Carroll has said about me.
I have
not had time to doing nothing more than care for children.
No where have I sold out traditions, nor made public
appearances in regards to ceremonies or teachings of
traditions. Al Carroll posted under a unknown name, "That I
had sold out to white exploiters" was traced to the Jordan
School District in San Antonio, Texas. His posting of
untruths about me has not come from research, but through
words like that of a little boy that needs attention,
whether it be good or bad. what is interesting about all
this, I am not a public figure in no way whatsoever, I am a
housewife, mother, grandmother nothing more. I have nothing
to gain in the public's opinion of lying. The public opinion
is not a priority in my life, what is, are the children I
take in and care for.
JL: Were you also attacked by other members of the NAFPS
group or just Al Carroll?
Robin: The dynamics within the group if
attacks occur usually fall into the hands of two people, Al
Carroll and Moma Porcupine. But if there were a conflict with Al Carroll, I believe that
in my situation, if some did not agree with how Al handled
the situation, they would not nor did they speak up on the matter. In fact
is was quiet the opposite, no one spoke on the matter. It
is more an attitude of sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't
exist. And go on to the next subject. However I did forward
an email to Barnaby from Al Carroll and I did this only to
prove in fact I was truthful in the matter. The answer that
came back from him was, " what do you want me to do about
it?" In sending it I already knew that I would receive
a response that would be of an answer such as that.
I did receive a personal email from Annika asking me to
reconsider leaving the group, pointing to me that perhaps
"Starr" was a changed
person and should be given the chance to prove it. But she
also stated that if "Starr" was not, it would be easy to see
if it was more of a
way for a fraud to come into the group to create discord. I
did not have it in me to tell her, that I thought Al only
wanted everyone to
think "Starr" was part of nafps, for the reason which if
looking at it from the outside view, was to get drama and
more readers in the room at the time. This is also another
tactic used to bring people in to read, to create
sensational reading. But what it really is, a form of
personality dysfunction.
When it comes to confronting Al when he is wrong, there is
no objectivity there within the group. It is a matter if you
read the
many posts he makes, you will not find any in the group that
will voice or posts anything that might be in disagreement
with what he says.
- And if one does, the pattern is
Moma Porcupine will come in and attack the person, then Al
may come in with passiveness,. However they seem to tag team
who is good cop / bad cop. Never do they log into the nafps
at the same time. In fact when reading some of her
more recent posts, there has been a large difference in how
she writes. Which is leading me to believe the Moma
Porcupine is actually a man pretending to be a woman, or
perhaps a man that is like a woman. If you take a closer
look at the two main attackers, Al Carrol and Moma
Porcupine, why do they do this? Because they have the most
to loose on the board, and that is the board itself.
I did feel some undertone attacks with Moma Porcupine at
times, which I found somewhat puzzling. Because most of the
time it was based on unimportant and unrelated issues that
were borderline paranoia. Other than Al Carroll and Moma
Porcupine there were no others that attacked me, yet no one
made any attempts to defend me either. It reminded me much
of a person walking down the street and is mugged, many
people walk by yet do nothing, some of the reasons people do
this is, do not care, do not want to get involved, or fear
alone. There are undertones of fear in the forum, which do
remind me of someone living with an alcoholic, there is fear
of unpredictability of not knowing what the person will say
or do. Always on guard to defend the perpetrator. For fear
of
being rejected, smeared, damaged or hurt in some way.
- JL: Do you know if other members of
the group were smeared, damaged or
hurt for confronting Al Carroll.
-
-
Robin: Yes there have been other
members in the nafps that have been attacked.
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- JL: Who is Moma Porcupine,
who is Barnaby McEwan and who is Annika Banfield? Are these the primary
players other than Al Carroll? What do they do besides
posting on nafps? Where do they live and work?
- RL: Momma Porcupine is
anonymous. She gives no information of who or what she
is, nor where she lives or what she does. I believe she
is a man and
is actually two different people posting under that
name.
She has no intro in
the group. Barnaby, I can only say he
lives in the U.K. what he does, I have no information
other than that. Annika is a friend of Al Carroll's she
lives in Sweden and has done filming on native American
issues.
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- JL: Do you see a behavioral
pattern as to the dynamics of the group? In other words is
there internal email dialogue amongst each other as to how
they will deal with a NAFPS dissident for example?
-
Robin: Yes, there are emails
that are sent between members in regards to issues
posted and how one may handle the situation, what could
be said, what to do and not do.
- If receiving e mails from Al
Carroll stating that if I talked to certain individuals,
that it would also make me a fraud. I would have to say
yes. I received 3 emails from him in regards to who I
talk to. I would like to leave it up to anyone that
might read this to form their own opinion of how they
would view this as an outsider what this would be
considered as.
-
- JL:
Al Carroll has been unable to prove his apache origin.
The fact is he he is not enrolled, recognized or
affiliated with any apache tribe.
Using his mathematics, couldn't Barnaby McEwan
hippy from
England also say he is part Mescarleo apache?
So could Annika Banfield who is from Sweden?
-
Why you
believe he has not been able to prove who he is or what
his roots are and what exactly do you think this would
mean to most Native Americans?
Robin: Al
Carroll in his own words has stated in his blog were two
comments from two native ladies, one he names is Annika,
the other Momma Porcupine. Annika I suppose would be
native of Sweden, but not here in the states, and Moma
Porcupine has stated herself she is not Native American,
so I do not know what that statement would actually mean
if it is in the terms as I just stated. Otherwise it is
a fabrication of Al Carroll trying to pass them off as
Native American women.
I have
seen many friends that are Native American that were
adopted out, yet have been able to find and locate their
biological families.
-
I have a
daughter-in-law, her father is Hispanic and her
mother is Hispanic/native mix, yet she herself does
not say she is Mexican/Native mix, she says she is
Mexican.
- I have seen many
Hispanic people for whatever reason say they are
native, but has no proof to their bloodline of being
native. When a person states they are unenrolled
this means 1) Their native roots go so far back
that they do not qualify with a tribe according the
the tribes Blood Quantum requirements, 2) They can
not produce any family names that would link them to
a tribe.
-
In
most cases
( I underlined most because it is not implying all)
people that are unenrolled under say the two
examples I gave, having no knowledge of the culture,
language or ceremonies, and in Al Carroll's case I
have only seen him use Lakota words which that in
itself says quiet a lot. It says he knows very
little to none of his own culture that he proudly
shouts out. Yet not proud enough to learn it. In my
family there are 3 tribes, I myself can converse
with all of them. I have been taught the languages,
the customs, the ceremonies.
-
If Al Carroll can
not prove he is Apache, nor speak the language, or
even know some of the customs, the question would
be why does he find it necessary to say he is
Mexican/Apache? If you look at what he actually
does, that in itself will answer the question.
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Al Carroll aka
Educated Indian is the ringleader of NAFPS. 5 star member |
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JL: Do you know how the apache feel about
some one who claims to be representing them
and is attacking other tribes and medicine
people and meddling in their business? What
is this doing for intertribal relations?
-
Robin: I have one friend that is from the
White Mountain Apache Tribe. We have
discussed this issue in the past. It has
angered her to see Mexican people state
they are Apache. As she has said "none
of them speak our language, what do they
know about being Apache?"
-
I am not a member of the Apache and can
not speak for them, but what I will say
on the subject is that no tribe wants
anyone that is not appointed to speak
for them, speak out on matters that
concern their traditions or culture.
-
John if I may put it this way, you are from
England, is that correct? How would the
people in England feel if someone from a
foreign country set up a web site to discuss
matters of the political, and religious
practices of England? How many Catholic
Popes have declared Kings and Queens of
England to be heretics? It is the same mind
set. Do foreigners have the right to appoint
themselves to be over seers of other
countries? No, just like in this case with
the nafps they do not have the right to
oversee matters that do not concern them,
they do not live under the same laws as
those on reservations. They do not live in
the conditions, nor walk out of their homes
every morning and deal with the issues that
many on the reservations are dealing with on
a daily basis. There may be one or two on
the board that might live in the Native
communities and deal with these issues, but
it does not give them the right to speak on
behalf of their tribe or other tribes. The
native communities are filled with gangs,
violence, poverty, abuse, homeless, jobless.
The forum itself instead of focusing on a
handful of frauds, they would be more
constructive if they were working with the
tribes to help the many overcome the issues
that I have pointed out. It is very sad to
see in a recent posting that one of their
members who works with his tribe to
cultivate their natural resources to improve
his tribe and preserve for their youth's
future, to be put under a microscope by Moma
Porcupine and try to imply that he is
exploiting his culture.
-
Read what
Martina Looking Horse, Arvol's sister has
posted recently , in it she speaks about
outsiders and the damage they have and are
doing to the Lakota people. She herself
along with many others do not want outside
meddlers involved within the Lakota
communities, customs or traditions. What
would make the nafps exempt from this?
Nothing, this includes all with no
exceptions.
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