SPIEGEL: Professor Chomsky,
cathedrals of capitalism have collapsed, the conservative government is
spending its final weeks in office with nationalization plans. How does
that make you feel?
SPIEGEL: Do you prefer the team on
the other side: the 72 year old Vietnam veteran McCain and Sarah Palin,
former Alaskan beauty queen?
Chomsky: This Sarah Palin phenomenon is
very curious. I think somebody watching us from Mars, they would think
the country has gone insane.
SPIEGEL: Arch conservatives and
religious voters seem to be thrilled.
Chomsky: One must not forget that this
country was founded by religious fanatics. Since Jimmy Carter, religious
fundamentalists play a major role in elections. He was the first
president who made a point of exhibiting himself as a born again
Christian. That sparked a little light in the minds of political
campaign managers: Pretend to be a religious fanatic and you can pick up
a third of the vote right away. Nobody asked whether Lyndon Johnson went
to church every day. Bill Clinton is probably about as religious as I
am, meaning zero, but his managers made a point of making sure that
every Sunday morning he was in the Baptist church singing hymns.
SPIEGEL:: Is there nothing about
McCain that appeals to you?
Chomsky: In one aspect he is more honest
than his opponent. He explicitly states that this election is not about
issues but about personalities. The Democrats are not quite as honest
even though they see it the same way.
SPIEGEL:: So for you, Republicans
and Democrats represent just slight variations of the same political
platform?
Chomsky: Of course there are differences,
but they are not fundamental. Nobody should have any illusions. The
United States has essentially a one-party system and the ruling party is
the business party.
SPIEGEL: You exaggerate. In almost
all vital questions -- from the taxation of the rich to nuclear energy
-- there are different positions. At least on the issues of war and
peace, the parties differ considerably. The Republicans want to fight in
Iraq until victory, even if that takes a 100 years, according to McCain.
The Democrats demand a withdrawal plan.
Chomsky: Let us look at the differences.
more closely, and we recognize how limited and cynical they are. The
hawks say, if we continue we can win. The doves say, it is costing us
too much. But try to find an American politician who says frankly that
this aggression is a crime: the issue is not whether we win or not,
whether it is expensive or not. Remember the Russian invasion of
Afghanistan? Did we have a debate whether the Russians can win the war
or whether it is too expensive? This may have been the debate at the
Kremlin, or in Pravda. But this is the kind of debate you would expect
in a totalitarian society. If General Petraeus could achieve in Iraq
what Putin achieved in Chechnya, he would be crowned king. The key
question here is whether we apply the same standards to ourselves that
we apply to others.
SPIEGEL: Who prevents
intellectuals from asking and critically answering these questions? You
praised the freedom of speech in the United States.
Chomsky: The intellectual world is deeply
conformist. Hans Morgenthau, who was a founder of realist international
relations theory, once condemned what he called .the conformist
subservience to power. on the part of the intellectuals. George Orwell
wrote that nationalists, who are practically the whole intellectual
class of a country, not only do not disapprove of the crimes of their
own state, but have the remarkable capacity not even to see them. That
is correct. We talk a lot about the crimes of others. When it comes to
our own crimes, we are nationalists in the Orwellian sense.
SPIEGEL: Was there not, and is
there not -- in the United States and worldwide -- loud protest against
the Iraq war?
Chomsky: The protest against the war in
Iraq is far higher than against the war in Vietnam. When there were
4,000 American deaths in Vietnam and 150,000 troops deployed, nobody
cared. When Kennedy invaded Vietnam in 1962, there was just a yawn.
SPIEGEL: To conclude, perhaps you
can offer a conciliatory word about the state of the nation?
Chomsky: The American society has become
more civilized, largely as a result of the activism of the 1960s. Our
society, and also Europe's, became freer, more open, more democratic,
and for many quite scary. This generation was condemned for that. But it
had an effect.
SPIEGEL: Professor Chomsky, we thank you
for this interview.
Interview conducted by Gabor Steingart
