John LeKay: Can you please tell me a little about
your early years and your decision to become an
artist?
Luke
Roberts: The town of my birth and where I grew up is
called Alpha in outback Queensland, Australia. The
very name of this town beautifully sums up some of
my major interests, language, words, brainwaves and
outerspace, as well as origins and mythology.
”Reality is made of language,” Terrence McKenna
said. One of my guiding ideas has been the myth of
the Egyptian god Ptah, who spoke the name of
everything to bring it into reality. These ideas
have figured widely in my work. The word made flesh
and the flesh made word.
From as early as I can remember thinking of the
future I wanted to be an artist. In the 1950s and
1960s, especially here in Australia, and especially
in country Queensland, that was an equivalent of
saying you wanted to fly to the moon. We didn't have
oil paintings in our town, or any other paintings
for that matter, just prints and the best of these
were holy pictures. I was very influenced by the
pre-Vatican Council form of Catholicism, including
the Latin Mass.
The ritual and ceremony of the church has had a big
influence on my performance art work. We didn't have
a museum or an art gallery in the conventional
sense, so the closest we had as a sculpture garden
was the cemetery. The cemetery has also played a
role in my view of art. At the same time I was
taking on the influence of kitsch objects and the
movies and other forms of cultural expression such
as formal dances, rodeos and travelling shows,
especially circuses. Carnivals disrupt the norm.
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Christ + Kahlo 1989
photographic performance
from the series 1+1=8 |
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Goofy Mickey 1994
diptych
acrylic and objects on canvas
each approx 90cm x 45cm (3ft x 1.5ft) |
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After
high school, which was spent at a boarding school, I
worked for a year in Sydney and studied drawing.
Eventually I gained admission to art college. Whilst
it has been difficult to survive as an artist I have
fairly much done so since that time, even though I
have had various jobs on occasion. After art college
I opened a second-hand shop, which allowed me to
express my interest in installation, antiques,
tribal artifacts, history and clothing as an art
expression.
JL: Yes, I definitely
see the catholic influence in your work; especially
in your performances. Have you always been
interested in outer space and can you tell me about
the humour in your work? I find some of these pieces
really funny, like the Mickey Mouse and
Goofy
pieces.
- LR: The sacred and
the profane are interlinked. Humour connects us to
the divine and laughter
is mysterious. I see humour and laughter as
profoundly spiritual experiences and very healthy.
What may not be so evident in the Mickey and Goofy
work are the large phallic salt and pepper shakers
in the form of mushrooms, which are attached to the
canvas. This work was also an amusing ‘portrait’ of
two artworld figures at the time, who seemed to hold
a patriarchal sway.
When I was a child, the Russians launched satellites
and we'd watch these twinkle in the skies over our
town. This momentous event sparked a flurry of
merchandise such as a flavoured ice confection
called a satellite.
The vastness of the universe
intrigued me and sometimes we saw strange lights
when driving at night. However, my Catholicism also
drew me into the idea of people from elsewhere
appearing and disappearing.
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Religion is full of such stories.
When I was young I wanted to have a vision of the
‘Virgin Mary, Mother of God’. Since those days, I
have seen research presenting strong evidence that
some of these visions may have a UFO connection. The
visions at Fatima in Portugal in 1917 for example,
could easily have UFO involvement. The Miracle of
the Sun appears to have some correlation to the
Vision of Ezekiel.
JL: Love your painting entitled, "My
Childhood Vision of Mother Mary MacKillop Galloping
Past the Alpha Convent Bringing More Joeys to
Central Western Queensland”. The sky looks a bit
like an Edvard Munch and the house reminds me of an
Andrew Wyeth. What inspired this piece and who is
Mother Mary MacKillop?
LR. Mother Mary MacKillop founded an
order of nuns in Australia called the Sisters of St
Joseph. Their mission was to bring education to
children in isolated areas of the country. The nuns,
as Josephites, were affectionately known as Joeys
(baby kangaroos).
Edvard Munch and Andrew Wyeth both had an influence
on that painting. There is that sense of stark
isolation, in this case with an ascension or
transcendence. The main influences on the painting
however were the work of Sidney Nolan, Frida Kahlo
and Colin McCahon. Frida Kahlo's work introduced me
to the retablo tradition of Mexico, which has
connection with my own Catholicism. Both her work
and McCahon’s reassured me it was okay to use text
on paintings. Magritte was another influence here
and possibly influenced all the other artists bar
Munch.
JL: In the book, Lame Deer
Seeker of Visions, Heyoka medicine man John Fire
Lame Deer talks about working as a Rodeo clown. He
says, "It was my job to divert the bulls from the
riders who had been thrown, so that they would not
be gored... I had a special act. I was dressed up as
a lady with a big yellow wig and two big stuffed
pillows for a make believe ‘babies bar’, as the
cowboys called a girls bumpers. My stage name was
Alice Jitterbug".
How and when did you come
up with your persona Alice?
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My
Childhood vision of Mother Mary MacKillop
galloping past the Alpha Convent bringing
more joeys to Central Western Queensland 1994
oil and gold leaf over acrylic on linen
168cm x 122cm |
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Alice
Jitterbug 1977
photographic performance
from the 'Alice Jitterbug' series
and later DVD 'Transformer' |
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LR: Alice grew out of my
personal struggle, creative process and inner life, which
compelled me to express aspects of myself and manifest my
dissatisfaction with social norms and religious restrictions
by 'protesting' in a performative public way. As a child I
was always dressing as particular historical figures or
generic figures. I was particularly inspired by Native
American culture, Ancient Egypt and Japanese culture.
In the early 1970s, I began to present the, as yet unnamed,
Alice persona in an increasingly more public manner. In
1974, during a trip to Melbourne, I visited the National
Gallery in drag (for want of a better term), as part of my
blossoming early art practice. I was at Art College at the
time and this was a radical departure, not only from what we
were being taught at Art School, but also it had no real
connection with any other art that was taking place in
Australia at the time. The gallery performance, which was an
understated action, was my own initiative and presented
without permission from the staff of the National Gallery of
Victoria. The idea was that I ‘pass’ undetected. My friends
stood as witnesses. The event was a huge success and later
that evening I was mistaken for Germaine Greer.
During this Melbourne visit I bought 'Seeker of Visions'
from a bookshop called The Source. It was to change my life
and give me my 'stage' name. As the train pulled out of the
city I began to read Lame Deer’s book and instantly knew
there was a message for me regarding my name on p 52. Part
of this page you’ve quoted above. Fifty-two is a significant
number and is also the year I was born. The event was both a
naming ceremony and a vision quest fulfillment for me. A
name is a powerful energy. It has to have the right
vibration to achieve the right outcome. Many film stars have
changed their names for success. I doubt we'd remember Judy
Garland as Ethel Gumm or Rock Hudson as Roy Scherer in the
same way.
My mother, oblivious to the significance for me of the story
she was telling, later described a journey that we went on,
just a few weeks after I was born, to a town about 160 Km
/100 miles away. It was summer and a hot day in the Outback.
My parents took me down to a river enroute to bathe and cool
me. The river's name is Alice.
I don't mean to infer anything mystical or supernatural by
relating these experiences. However I do strongly subscribe
to telepathic energies and contact with advanced
extraterrestrial peoples. I do think we live amidst many
more dimensions than we are conscious of. Coincidence has
other explanations. I do believe we are currently in between
worlds as the New Paradigm begins to emerge. Artists play a
large role in opening up the way and interpreting the signs
and making change less frightening for others.
Alice remains a powerful name for me. Alice Jitterbug
remains a powerful part of my art history.
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JL: What about Pope Alice?
LR: These days Her
Divine Holiness Pope Alice tends to dominate my art
practice. Pope Alice also emerged in the 1970s and
obviously shares the name Alice. Pope Alice's full
name is Pope Alice Springs into Wonderland. As she
has been around for some time and is a cultural
icon, there is a subtle connection between her
presence in the ‘Land of Oz’ and the film 'Priscilla
Queen of the Desert', where the 'girls' set out to
visit Alice Springs.
Pope Alice claims the Outback city is named after
her, as she fell to earth there and bounced to Uluru.
She is thousands of years old and also asserts that
Lewis Carroll based his 'Alice' books on her story.
She fell through a black hole, Carroll's Alice fell
down a rabbit hole. Both Alices entered
back-to-front, contrary worlds. There is a sense of
connecting with the spirit of heyoka here and by
doing things the ‘right way’ round it is everyone
else, who is back-to-front and out of step.
To quote
J Krishnamurti: "It is no measure of
health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society."
Or as they say in the classics, "Not me that needs
the doctor, Blanche!"
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Pope Alice ,
Queen of Heaven 1999/2006
Photographic performance
Witnesses: Ricardo Felipe and Jandy Rainbow |
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JL: Can you
tell me about this performance piece,
You are not alone.
I notice you
use images of the chakra system and Hindu
symbols.
LR: The work centers around
Sacred Geometry and a recognition that all
cultures throughout the world have particular
types of geometry in common often associated
with the sacred, the divine and healing. The
Chakra system is part of this sacred geometry.
The Mandelbrot set also figures
in the work as a means of attempting to describe
Infinity, especially our own internal infinity.
As above, so below and so within. At the heart
of this performance are images of crop glyphs or
crop circles; the most amazing public art works
occurring on Planet Earth today and largely
unrecognized.
The work included an appearance
by Her Divine Holiness Pope Alice, who is
extraterrestrial, but has had a long association
with Earth. This partly explains the title, You
Are Not Alone. To underline extraterrestrial
connection the marvelously engaging speech by
Klaatu from The Day The Earth Stood Still,
was also presented.
Some of the other images shown during the
performance directly link ancient artworks with
UFO sightings and possible contact with
inter-planetary peoples. One of my early
inspirations was Erik von Daniken’s
Chariot of the Gods.
JL: What do the
multiple breasts represent?
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Pope
Alice (Milk Hill - Alton Barnes UK) June 2003
from 'Appearances' series
Camera: Lucy Pringle and Karen Hewett |
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LR: The multiple breasts represents
not only a goddess-style association invoking
Artemis or such, but also represents the idea of
difference and otherness and the fact that we are
now in a reality whereby we can radically alter our
bodies as we choose. My friend and fellow
performance artist, Stelarc, for example has
recently grown an ear on his arm. I have six sisters
and three of them have had breast enlargements. I
also have a number of close friends who have had
gender re-alignment surgery. Two of these friends,
Jandy Rainbow and Jessica Astrid, play particular
roles in You Are Not Alone.
PopeAlice is a shapeshifter and
doesn’t always appear with breasts. The breasts
represent the Sacred Feminine and the belief I share
with others that Femininity will save the planet.
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You Are Not
Alone 2006
performance detail
Institute of Modern Art, Brisbane |
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JL: What planet is Pope
Alice from and how was this work received in
Australia?
LR: Pope Alice comes from Metalluna. However we
don't know where this is. Is it in the Pleaidien
star system? Does it have connection with Sirius
or Orion? We do know she fell through a black
hole to arrive here.
Pope Alice is much loved in Australia and
elsewhere and has been for decades now. The Pope
Alice Xorporation (PAX) manages the Affairs of
HDH Pope Alice. The performance work You Are Not
Alone was presented by PAX and the Institute of
Modern Art and sparked some curious debate as I
identified as a Raelian artist on the blurb. It
was known that I’d joined the Movement and I
wanted to be upfront about this fact, especially
in a show dealing with ETs and UFOs etc. I
wasn’t proselytizing. It was a tongue-in-cheek
gesture. I was presenting myself as a labeled
item within Pope Alice’s Wunderkammer (cabinet
of curiosities). Some people were challenged by
the sophistication of this concept.
JL: Did Pope Alice meet some resistance?
LR:
It’s inevitable that anything that has something
powerful to say encounters resistance. At the
beginning of her appearances in the 1970s there
was some resistance from particular quarters.
Some thought her disrespectful to Catholicism
and religion, and certainly she has been a kind
of parody and very much involved in the
breakdown of conservative religious values and
the re-thinking and reconstruction of spiritual
perspectives. One of her titles is the Great
White Nurse to Ailing Culture, a name
humourously derived from some well-known shark
species.
I
created PopeAlice to help me deal with my own
spiritual, sexual and cultural history all
mirrored in the greater social upheaval around
me. In the 1970s there was a crisis in direction
in the West. At first I was somewhat concerned
that everything seemed to be breaking down. Our
big dreaming, our central story in the West, the
Bible, was being ridiculed along with almost
everything else and a huge reassessment was
taking place.
I
came to embrace these changes and realize I was
playing quite a role in the transition. We have
to continue shifting outdated ideas out of the
way to allow the new to take hold. A crust had
built up over time that corrupted and concealed
access to comprehending the human condition and
humanity’s story.
These
days, as PopeAlice has supported particular
events, especially some connected with the
Raelian Movement, a different kind of energy
comes into play. Pope Alice, is an enigma. She
is neither Raelian nor of the Elohim (those who
come from the sky). The Elohim are the people
the Raelian Movement are preparing to welcome
and are planning an embassy for. Elohim is the
Hebrew word that has been translated as god, but
ultimately it is a plural word and refers to a
particular group of people from another planet.
There is a preference in the Western artworld
for versions of pseudo-spirituality rather than
have artists commit to a spiritual life of a
specific nature. Post-post-modernism often
manifests as pop, instant and surface-driven.
Appearances are everything it would seem. The
West prefers to create boundaries and categories
and maintain them rather than have people talk
openly with each other. However all cultures
have keys to enlightenment.
As we spiritualize science we come closer to
aboriginal peoples and our own ancient spiritual
connection. There are those who dismiss wisdom
within their own culture and cling to a romantic
view. This often indicates poor scholarship and
immaturity and a form of self-loathing and
insecurity and a tendency to romanticize native
spiritualities as a more innocent truth. At
heart this position basically patronizes native
peoples. We all have a lot to offer each other
and the pieces are now coming to light and
coming together.
Pope Alice embraces the spiritual histories of
all peoples. After all she is thousands of years
old and sees the connections. However she
particularly encourages humanity to embrace
science. Einstein recognized that advanced
science is a form of magic. Miracles and magic
being scientific processes we have yet to
understand.
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Wave
Painting (New Moon) 2004
Oil over acrylic on canvas
120 cm x 90 cm (4 ft x 3 ft) |
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J L.:
Your Wave Paintings are really quite beautiful. Is
that oil or acrylic paint?
LR: The paintings use both oil and acrylic. The top
layer is oil. Given the thickness of paint they are
very expensive to produce. The Wave Paintings are an
attempt to visualize energy. Yes they are inspired
by the ocean, but also by sound and thought waves.
We have an energy crisis that has been brought on by
greed and the suppression of knowledge, including
free energy sources such as Tesla promoted. New
energies are coming into play here on Planet Earth
as we raise our consciousness. We are also becoming
more aware of the significance of DNA and to some
extent these works reference the serpentine nature
of DNA.
The Wave Paintings are very
performative to manufacture in that I use my hands a
lot within the paint and they are very demanding
physically, yet very rewarding, to construct.
JL: Did you make these before or after the New World
paintings?
LR: This kind of question isn't easy to answer as
ideas overlap and sometimes take a long time to
emerge into their resolved state. Technically, I
suppose the New World Paintings came first given my
long standing Wunderkammer project and
investigations, and my interest in exploration,
discovery, research and naming.
There has been an ongoing interplay
in my work, given that I began early to explore
personae, my inner ‘selves’. The Pope Alice
Xorporation (PAX) has exhibited separately and Pope
Alice is known to make work as well. How public to
go with the work of Pope Alice is a big question for
me. For example, the Wave Paintings, are in many
ways Pope Alice’s work and some of them could be
produced in public performance, but I have some
concerns here though.
On another note it’s
time the artworld fully embraced eclecticism and
pluralism and was more courageous in supporting
controversial ideas. Perhaps now that
neo-conservatism has been challenged maybe the
artworld won’t be so self-censoring.
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New World
Painitng (Outer Lemuria) 2004
Oil on linen
90 cm x 120 cm (36" x 48") |
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JL: Are all the New
World Paintings based on Outer Lemurian landscapes?
LR: Not necessarily. The
New World Paintings do often reference Oceania,
where Lemuria is asserted to have existed. When you
look closely at the pictures there is a UFO in the
sky, even if it's subtle.
Some of the New World Paintings reference Captain
Cook's voyage for example. New World is a way of
saying New Vision. Let’s look at the hidden history
of the planet and liberate ourselves from the
shackles and mistakes of History.
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Alpha painting (Caught between the Tree and
Emerald City) 1999
oil, gold leaf and objects over acrylic on linen
183 x 183 cm (6ft x' 6ft) |
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JL: Do you tend to work
from photos or from your imagination?
LR. Both play a role. I resisted the influence of
photography on painting at first, or tried to, for
many years, as I grew up with a traditional approach
to art making, especially painting. It was a sign of
veracity and integrity to start from scratch or at
least I thought so at the time. However one of my
first oil paintings, which I made at sixteen was
very post-modern in its way and based on a work by
Goya. Yet I remodeled the face on an image from a
beauty magazine.
Our view of art has been very influenced by
photography and prints here in Australia, whether we
liked it or not and this has only increased. So much
of our first contact with artworks came through
books or in a reproduced form. The great examples of
European high culture generally weren’t accessible
here. Many wonderful exhibitions visit Australia
these days and much of the population is now widely
traveled. Photography has taken on a different
cultural role and continues to change our view of
our world and who we are. It is a very different
world with cyberspace and the digital revolution.
Humanity has yet to catch up properly with its own
technological advances. The Singularity is
approaching, which will completely alter our
experiences. A future point of unprecedented
technological progress, where there is an
"intelligence explosion" with machines surpassing
human intellect and augmenting themselves into far
greater intelligences is not far off.
We are only limited by
our ability to imagine. We need to take on
impossible dreams. Have a big dream and our universe
expands accordingly.
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JL: In one of our
conversations you said something about a Golden
Age. What did you mean exactly?
LR: We have already engaged with the Golden Age.
Our foot is on the doorstep. We are entering a
portal to a new world, a paradigm shift is
taking place. At this point we are in between
worlds.
Artists help to make sense of these
developments, or are supposed to, so that people
won't be as fearful or confronted by all the
changes taking place. There is a huge shift in
consciousness unfolding, yet most people are
asleep. The American Dream has been crumbling
until recently. "It's called the American
Dream", according to George Carlin, "because you
have to be asleep to believe it." Or as Terrence
McKenna said, “The Grand Dream of Western
Civilization has basically failed.” With the
election of Obama a new world (‘the promised
land’) has been glimpsed and the American Dream
somewhat redeemed and Western Dreaming
reinvigorated.
JL: What do you think is going on with all this
turmoil around the world? The financial markets,
all the political corruption, wars, droughts,
strange weather patterns, etc.
LR: All cultures have indicated via their
ancient knowledge that this point of human
development would be a time of great upheaval.
2012 is the end of the Mayan calendar, which
represents the completion of huge cycles of
time. Our solar system will line up with the
centre of our galaxy the Milky Way and the
precession of the Earth's axis will have
completed a 26,000 year cycle. Powerful energy
is coming into play.
It is the end of the mystery of god, the age of
revelation is here and it is well and truly time
for us to take responsibility for our actions.
Our thoughts are powerful and we must remain
positive to survive. We send out waves and these
are picked up by others. Our telepathic
abilities are emerging. It is important to
remain loving and compassionate towards others
and to love ourselves. Human violence must be
curtailed or we will destroy our future.
As I mentioned earlier, there is a paradigm
shift taking place. Much is being cleared out of
the way to make way for a new era here on earth.
When we get it right we'll achieve the
fulfillment of our dreams here on this planet.
The financial system benefited only a few and
was based on greed and the manipulation of the
masses. A new financial system is being
developed and will need some time to take hold.
Sometimes something needs to die before we can
have new life.
As
for droughts and strange weather patterns, we
don't realize how much we are inter-connected
with the planet itself. Our thoughts and actions
are powerful. Unless we wake up and realize how
much we have been sucked in by corrupt social,
religious and governmental systems we will
remain enslaved to the sickness they peddle and
worse weather will follow. We must rid ourselves
of violent thoughts and defuse any possibility
of nuclear irresponsibility. Decency advises
against carrying these thoughts any further, as
we must avoid giving any energy or shape to
negativity.
Positive thinking changes the world. We need as
many people as possible to embrace their higher
consciousness to advance to the next level of
civilization. Meditation is a profoundly
effective way of raising consciousness.
JL: What are you working on now
and where do you think your artwork is going to
take you next?
Currently
I’m working on a few projects. I’ve applied for
doctoral candidature to research heyoka, sacred
clowns, shaman and performance history. As well
as that I’ve applied to spend time in Alpha and
Central Western Queensland to make new work to
further develop ideas discussed in this
interview. Both projects at this stage depend on
successful funding outcomes.
Nonetheless I continue working
towards a more comprehensive survey of my
practice that will showcase in public
institutions in Sydney and Brisbane in 2010 with
an international component.
Alongside all this I expect that
as humanity awakens Pope Alice will be in demand
as an interpreter of the sign of the times and a
guide within the emerging New Paradigm.
Overall
there is a sense of blossoming, a coming of age
for humanity. There has been a spiritual hunger,
which is finding some nourishment now. It is
reassuring to see how much has developed in my
own lifetime and I refuse to be daunted by how
much has yet to be achieved. We live in an
amazing era, where anything and everything is
possible.
For more info visit
www.popealice.com
www.lukerobertsartist.com
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